A Question of Trust : A Conversation with Vanessa Hall Part Two

This article originally appeared in The National Networker

Last month I introduced you to Vanessa Hall, the award-winning speaker and author of Trust in Business. Vanessa outlined her model for understanding the foundations of trust and what you need to do to maintain trust in business relationships and ensure it doesn't erode and destroy relationships.

In the second part of the interview I asked Vanessa to elaborate on the role of trust in referral relationships and how to approach referrals with trust in mind.

A: In my new book I’ve been talking about how a trusted introduction can help a salesperson reach their prospect far more easily than cold calling and trying to get past the ‘gatekeeper’. Clearly that’s valuable for the salesperson, but how can the person passing the referral protect the trust they have with the prospect?

V: One of the key things about referred trust that I talk about is understanding both the benefits but also the risks involved, so we have to be quite careful when we’re referring someone else to somebody with whom we have a trust relationship.  This is where my theory of situational trust comes in as well. One of the important things which a lot of people don’t do when they’re giving referrals is to understand in what situation or what context does their trust relationship with this person exist.

Often what happens, for example, is that I might know somebody through the fact that our kids play soccer together. There’s a trust relationship that’s been built around picking up kids, dropping them off, those sorts of things. There’s still a trust there, but it’s very specific to that particular situation. If I refer somebody into that person, somebody else with whom I have an element of trust, but they’re looking for a business type referral, the person who we’re referring them to trusts me more from a social context. If I’m not clear about who this person is that I’m referring them to and why I’m referring them you can actually open yourself up to some confusion.

In understanding the situational trust that exists between two people we can also begin to develop and understand the expectations that we have, and the expectations that the person referring into them might have as well. The process of referrals works much better when you acknowledge the trust relationship that you have and then communicate the context of that contact.

Often what people do is refer people and then leave the relationship up to them but I’ve been caught out a number of times.  Just giving a contact is not enough if we want to build trust. If we don’t frame it properly, not only is the relationship not bridged between this new person and the contact but it can also damage the relationship between that person and you – the person who’s giving the referral in the first place.

A: Framing is vital. I talk a lot about ‘qualified’ and ‘unqualified’ referrals, based on the relationship you have with someone. You may, for example, pass a ‘qualified’ referral to someone you have only just met, by making that clear to the prospect. Where you know and trust the person you are referring though, the referral is ‘unqualified’. You are clearly recommending their services, by saying for example, “talk to this person, they’re superb’. 

How much time do you spend following up the introductions you make to ensure both parties are working well together? 

V: I like to know and I always ask for feedback whenever I’ve given a referral because there are a number of referrals made and if one of them doesn’t work for some reason then I have to sit back and ask what’s happening in this process. Am I not connecting the right people or am I building up an expectation that’s not being delivered?  What’s actually going on?

If you never ask for that feedback you simply don’t know.  You just keep referring people and sometimes you can really end up wasting a lot of people’s time if you’ve not done it properly, so I certainly look for feedback.

Just going back to your point before about when you say, for instance, talk to this person, they’re superb, what can happen in making a statement like that is you can certainly build up an expectation but there’s also an implied promise.  I talk about the difference between implicit and explicit promises, there’s an implied promise – the minute you give somebody a referral, there’s a very good chance that this is going to turn into a business referral, which to me is the implied promise that can break down trust more quickly.

So in not being clear about that and making a simple statement like “this person’s fantastic” or “they’re a real go-getter” or “they’re really friendly” or whatever, you’ve made an implied promise and built up an expectation in that person’s mind about how their interaction might play out, and if it doesn’t play out exactly in the way they expect and the way they believe it was promised to them and it doesn’t meet their needs then their trust in you can break down very quickly.

It’s about respecting the trust that you have and I talk about handling it with care. I compare trust to an egg, it can break very easily so you need to handle that trust very carefully and respect it for what it is.
It’s a gift when people trust you.

A :  Would you introduce someone you’ve only just met to somebody who is a very important client of yours?

V: If I’ve got a very strong sense about the person, but again I’d make it very clear that I’ve only just met them, and I can’t vouch for them other than I’ve got a sense that they were nice, or the right sort of person, but yes I certainly do qualify it in your terms.

A:  Do you find yourself from holding back from introductions that you could make until you feel the trust is at the right level?

V: Yes definitely. I think to some extent it depends on the nature of the contacts. For example, the more work that I do in senior government levels and with people connected with the UN, a lot of people want to know the people who I know. I don’t believe it’s my place to just suddenly open the doors and pour all these people to them, so it’s also being clear about what’s the nature of the relationship between me and these other people and what are their expectations in terms of protecting that relationship too.

It’s a difficult one, because on the one hand you certainly want to help people and help their business to grow and networks continue to increase, and I love connecting people but there is an element of – you know – I’d really love to understand more about you as a person and what you are trying to achieve; what’s the goal?

And what are you expecting out of this connection as well, because I’ve seen it go terribly wrong in many situations

A: You talked about referred trust, you talked about situational trust, can you just explain the other types of trust in your model?

V: In the book I talk about blind trust. With blind trust we jump in, we don’t think about what we’re expecting, about what we need, and we don’t articulate that. And so what happens in a blind trust situation is we are often left quite disappointed and we often blame the other person. But we had a role to play in that by obviously not being clear about what we expected out of this relationship, this interaction and what we need? You should also ask can this person actually promise to deliver on those, are you trusting the right person for the outcome you are looking for?

I talk about sceptical trust, which is the opposite.  We’re very, very clear about our expectations and we want to get right down to the nitty gritty detail before we step into the trust relationship. Very, very clear about our expectations, very clear about our needs, We’ll only trust somebody who will 100% promise to meet those.
I talk about middle ground. There’s a balance between those two, both of them can work very well in some situations but both of them can be very detrimental so there’s a middle ground there. We have to articulate and be clear about our expectations and needs and be sure that the person we’re dealing with can make promises to deliver that.

We can’t go down to the nth degree and people can’t always promise every little detail and so there is a point where we have to step into the relationship but by understanding the model of trust we can also continue to communicate effectively as well.

CONNECTING IS NOT ENOUGH: When Week is Strong

This article originally appeared in The National Networker

How often do you interact personally with your customers? Whether it’s working directly with them, speaking to them on the phone, visiting their offices. If you’re not in regular direct contact there’s a good chance it’s impacting on your ability to either upsell to them or to inspire them to refer you.

A couple of weeks ago I Chaired The Retail Conference in London. One of the speakers was Hamish Paton, the Commercial Director of Brighthouse Stores.

Despite having a presence across the UK, Brighthouse may not be a name you recognise. You won’t find a Brighthouse in the main shopping centres or streets of any of our major cities. Instead, their stores are situated in the suburbs, within three miles and easy access of their main customer base.

Location genuinely is vital for Brighthouse, because their customers need to visit them every week. In a business model more common to the US than the UK, Brighthouse customers purchase products and pay for them on a weekly basis over a period of time, normally three years, without the need for credit checks.

With the theme of the Conference being responsiveness and adaptability, it was no surprise when one of the questions directed at Hamish after his presentation was whether Brighthouse had considered changing their model with the times, bringing in monthly payment by Direct Debit or internet purchase.

Russell’s response was very interesting. Brighthouse had considered such moves but had dismissed them for two reasons.

The first is that the Direct Debit/Monthly payment market is very different and one where Brighthouse don’t necessarily understand the customers and their needs as well as they do their established market. They currently service a much needed niche and feel that it is better to build on their expertise than try to dilute it through diversification.

Secondly, Hamish sees tremendous value in the weekly connection with their customers.

“Our staff are counselors”, Hamish told the Conference. “They get to know their customers well and if someone misses a payment, the first thing they will do is work with them to get them back on track.

“If someone doesn’t turn up one week we will call them to find out what the problem is and see how they can be helped. That personal relationship is absolutely vital and we wouldn’t be able to provide the same service, or enjoy the same interaction, if people paid automatically through Direct Debit.”

After Hamish’s response, I asked him how much of Brighthouse’s business comes through up selling to existing customers. The answer was an astonishing 80%, a particularly impressive statistic when you consider that Brighthouse advertise on prime time television, including a sponsor slot on the Australian soap opera Home and Away.

Equally revealing was Hamish’s response to my next question. Despite their advertising strategy, 40% of Brighthouse’s new business comes through referral from existing customers.

With retail having a very transactional business model, many retailers will be much less dependent on direct referrals from customers than other industries. I asked the audience how many of them could boast a similar or greater rate of referrals from the existing customer base. Not one person raised their hand.

Yet Brighthouse have a strong focus on winning those referrals, and the opportunity to both ask their customers and remind them of the request. They operate an incentive scheme which rewards both the customer making the referral and the new customer signing up with them. That incentive scheme is featured on in-store promotions and in the pack that new customers receive, but it is the weekly meetings that make the difference.

“When customers make their payment each week, our team take the time and speak to them,” Hamish said. “We try to engage them as much as possible; we call it ‘till talk’. We train our staff to have a conversation with our customers rather than just process a transaction.

“One of the really unusual things about our business is that the customers and staff know each other by first name and greet each other outside the shop as well. We have a coffee machine in store and sometimes people just come in for a chat.

“Our staff are genuinely members of the local community, and there are very few places on the high street where you can walk in and expect people to know your name.”

The growth of internet solutions, remote banking and autoresponders has moved businesses away from our customers in recent years. We increasingly find ways to provide solutions without the personal touch. While there are very strong commercial arguments for developing such a strategy, are we in danger of losing the personal touch?

Surely the less we see and speak to our clients the weaker the bond between us becomes. That can impact a business not just in terms of reduced customer loyalty and the ability to sell more to them, but it also reduces the opportunity to ask them to refer us to others. Among the conversations Brighthouse staff have with their customers, they will regularly remind them of their referral incentive scheme and ask for their help.

It’s the relationship that makes that possible, and for Brighthouse that’s built through weekly contact with their customers. How many of us can say the same?

CONNECTING IS NOT ENOUGH: Busting the Myth

This article originally appeared in The National Networker



It’s time to shatter a few illusions now. I’m sorry but networking groups do not produce referrals.

That may disappoint a few people who have spent a lot of time and money joining groups in the hope of generating new business. Hours spent at breakfast meetings, lunches and chatting over canapés when you could have been watching The Apprentice…..all wasted.

Before you panic and start cancelling all of your memberships, bear with me. I didn’t say it’s all a waste of time!

The myth is that new business comes directly from networking groups. Because of that myth, it is common practice to join a group, turn up for a while and then question why you have seen no results. The fact that many miss is that networking groups are merely the starting point; most of the business done and most of the relationships built are based on understanding developed outside of the meetings.

This fact stands whether you are looking at an online networking group or one where the members meet face to face. In both cases you still need to develop strong relationships with fellow members and that means spending some quality time with them.

I write and speak a lot about the importance of the depth of relationships developed through networking. Yes, it is important to build a wide and diverse network, but the real power comes from people who know, like and trust you. That’s when people will go out of their way to support you, when people will genuinely want to refer you, when people will seek out the appropriate opportunities.

Referrals and support come not from networking groups but from your network. They are two distinct entities. Your network comprises people you have relationships with, whether they are personal contacts or people you know through business. Your network includes your friends and family, social contacts, people you have met because your children go to the same school. It includes clients, suppliers, business associates and people you have met at networking groups.

Depending on the strength of your relationship, it is these people who want to support you the most, and networking groups are simply a way of feeding that network.

If you can focus on this, you can approach your membership of networking groups in a different way. Instead of looking for one off ‘hits’, people who you immediately see an opportunity to work with or sell to, find people who you’d like to get to know better. Spend time talking with them, meeting outside of the network and developing a real friendship. Through doing so, you will soon count them as a key part of your network, rather than simply being members of the same group.



For someone to refer you effectively, two key elements need to be in place. They need to both trust you enough to effectively put their reputation on the line every time they introduce you to one of their contacts, and they need to understand your business in enough depth to be able to recognise and convert opportunities to refer you.

The limitation with relying on networking groups, or online networks for that matter, is the number of people present. Unless you are in a small Mastermind-style group, there is little opportunity to have in-depth conversations with fellow members and get to know them better. This makes it very difficult to build anything other than a superficial relationship and unlikely that you will develop the levels of trust and understanding that enable mutual referrals and support.

It’s no surprise, therefore, that people who focus their networking purely within the meetings struggle to achieve the potential from their membership. If you take a typical BNI-style meeting for example, if there are 40 members up to one hour of a meeting will typically be taken up with presentations. There are opportunities for brief conversations before and over breakfast.

Yet there are always members who leave the meeting as soon as the formal section has finished. Typically, they then won’t be seen again until the following week.

It’s not much different at larger and less frequent events such as Chambers of Commerce. Many people spend time looking to meet as many new people as possible, collecting business cards. Conversations are fleeting, handshakes rushed and elevator pitches exchanged. They then move onto their next contact.

The only way those connections can work is if you develop them over time. That means taking time out of meetings to have better conversations. I often use that time initially just to get to know each other socially. After all, you want people you like and have something in common with in your network. Over time you can then find out more about each other’s business, the challenges you face and the introductions you seek.

Networking groups often impress on their members the need to have regular 1-2-1 meetings with each other away from their events. It’s not enough just to meet once and tick that person off your list, remember that you are looking to develop a relationship and that means regular conversations and staying in touch. It doesn’t just have to be two of you, meet in small groups socially as well.

Twitter and LinkedIn users are now holding regular ‘Meet Ups’ (or ‘Tweetups for Twitter fans!) so that they can meet face to face. In the UK, Ecademy have been doing this for years.

You will struggle to achieve anything near the potential from your networking if you focus your efforts purely on the events or forums provided by the organisation. Identify people who can justify a place within your network and build the relationship with them.

Networking groups don’t provide referrals. They can, however, introduce you to the people who, over time, will.